good morning!
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Erich Schiffmann |
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I'm glad, thanks!
good morning! |
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Frangipani |
me 3 | ||
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Me 3
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Dancing Lotus |
right or wrong, a slight aside | ||
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Hi All,
Good and Evil ~ a topic i have wrestled with for many years, never reaching a place where the questions never returned. The right and wrong thread has again brought up more questions. I decided to take Eric's reminder to seek the aerial view in his post to Jeannettel 155 above. I am posting here because this is a direct result of my response to Erich's post and these threads seem to be somewhat dovetailed. This is what I received, I will not preface nor conclude with any of my own thinking about it. If it is of value to anyone, then my purpose for this post will have been served.
Namaste
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SimplyBill |
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So how do you/I descern (sp) which we are listening to,the ego or the Guidance we have asked for?
When faced with a question and you have flipped that coin or waited for the proper sign how does one tell? Sometimes I do feel like its the Matrix and just waiting to be awakened only to find its been a dream stateI've wandering in for years. I feel as though I have come ahead very far but still have far to go and to where to go, so many different questions. Sometimes feels like my head will come apart. I've never viewed my body as an illusion but only something as tangible and real as say a tree, this is a foriegn idea to me anyway. The first peace, which is the most important, is that which comes within the souls of people when they realize their relationship, their oneness, with the universe and all its powers, and when they realize that at the center of the universe dwells the Great Spirit, and that this center is really everywhere, it is within each of us. |
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noswrite |
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"When faced with a question and you have flipped that coin or waited for the proper sign how does one tell?" You can tell for sure when there is no choice. When you know. You know when you know that you know what you know. You can't know what you don't know. When you grow accustomed to knowing, the certainty of knowing becomes more obvious, more readily recognizable, because even though knowing is always fresh and apropos to the Now, it is always the same knowing. Not-knowing doesn't exist in the Now, yet knowing with certainty that not-knowing doesn't exist in the Now, does exist in the Now. J. Krishnamurti calls this freedom from the known. I think a good contemplation is: In the history of mankind, before there was written communication, there was knowing.
"I made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it short."
- Blaise Pascal |
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noswrite |
It's Dangerous to Believe Your Body is an Illusion | ||
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Bill wrote:
"So how do you/I descern (sp) which we are listening to, the ego or the Guidance we have asked for?" Osho's commentary on Pantajali's sutras offers a clear insight about knowing. Here is the beginning. If it interests you, he goes into greater detail at this link. "Patanjali says that the mind has a capacity. If that capacity is directed rightly, then whatsoever is known is true; it is self-evidently true. We are not aware about it because we have never used it. That faculty has remained unused. It is just... The room is dark, you come in it, you have a torch, but you are not using it -- so the room remains dark. You go on stumbling on this table, on that chair, and you have a torch, but the torch has to be put on. Once you put the torch on, immediately darkness disappears. And wherever the torch is focused you know. At least that spot becomes evident, self-evidently clear."
"I made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it short."
- Blaise Pascal |
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lightdancer |
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That's cool, Mark. I just had a revelation while reading your posts and while pondering Bill's question:
"So how do you/I descern (sp) which we are listening to, the ego or the Guidance we have asked for?" I am so surprised by what I'm thinking. But what if there aren't two things to listen to, but rather only one? I've never thought of it this way before, but I'm thinking that there is Guidance only, all the time, only. That's the only voice "speaking." There can't be anything else. How could there be? This goes back to the idea that there are not two forces at play: good and evil, God and something that is not-God. This is part of the illusion, thinking that there is true Guidance and then something else, another voice, that we can also listen to. There aren't two options to listen to - there is only one...true Guidance, being broadcast constantly, so to speak. Therefore, it's not that there are two broadcasts - ego and Guidance. There's only one broadcast, one channel. The difference, then, isn't with who is doing the broadcasting, where it's coming from, but rather, it's with who is doing the receiving! One clear channel coming in, always, yet it's our receptors that aren't clear...which make it seem like there are two confusing channels coming in. Wow, it's just so wild how we can keep putting the responsibility of clear listening "out there." I never before realized this. Just more and more, I'm realizing that the ego is simply a state of mind; one of being offline, of being disconnected, of ignoring God, of looking through the microscope and insisting that is all there is. The difference, I think, comes down to our states of mind while we're doing the listening, while we're doing the being, the living. The state of mind is what causes the distortion of One single broadcast into what looks like two, or more. It's like Stairway to Heaven is playing loud on my stereo. That's the only thing coming through. If I'm close to the speakers I can hear Jimmy Page's guitar solo with crystal clarity. But if I walk into the other room to do something else, I won't hear it as well. It will start sounding distorted. And because it sounds distorted, it won't seems as interesting, and so I might start humming a tune I heard yesterday and get involved with that, thinking about what I was doing when I heard the tune, what I was wearing, who I was with, etc. Suddenly, I can't even hear the music anymore, though Led Zeppelin is the only thing playing. I'm off in my mind about something else and mind-blowing Stairway to Heaven becomes background noise. All I have to do, if I want to hear Jimmy, is walk back into the stereo room and sit down and listen and give it my full-immersion attention. Not sure where this is going, sorry. But I'm thinking it's not that there are two things to listen to. There is only one thing speaking, broadcasting, communication to us, through us. It's the state of mind while we're listening that yields the quality of what we hear. Stay agitated and mentally busy and we'll hear Guidance with a lot of distortion. Stay calm and smooth, fully gently attentive and we'll hear Guidance with more clarity.
Last Edited By: lightdancer
02/09/09 09:15:46.
Edited 1 times.
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noswrite |
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Hi Carie,
Osho's commentary on Pantajali's sutras extensively examines mind, how it is defined, how it relates to yoga, how it relates to knowing, the reliability of the senses, and so on. The entire link is well worth reading, from beginning to end. It illuminates the subject of yoga, and it addresses every specific point you've mentioned, and as you are heavily referencing states of mind, you may want to take a look. This link to Volume 1 is partially complete. It's a good start. Volume 1 at this link is a complete pdf file, easily printable.
"I made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it short."
- Blaise Pascal |
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lightdancer |
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Thanks, Mark. I'll check it out.
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sifumary |
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This morning I asked for guidance concerning a problem with my son. (long story). The answer I got was "do nothing". So I debated whether this
was guidance or not, because it was not the answer I wanted.
I look at my ego as a force with lots of words and emotions attached to it while guidance uses little words and carries a very peaceful feeling.
Mary Watson
"Stop the chase and be a witness" |
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Lillylulu |
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"I look at my ego as a force with lots of words and emotions attached to it while guidance uses little words and carries a very peaceful feeling."
this is a nice way of putting it, mary. thanks. great links Mark...i got lost in there. |
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SimplyBill |
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And so the closer we get to the guidance the clearer the messages become without the distortion.
And as we wind on down the road.... The first peace, which is the most important, is that which comes within the souls of people when they realize their relationship, their oneness, with the universe and all its powers, and when they realize that at the center of the universe dwells the Great Spirit, and that this center is really everywhere, it is within each of us. |
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yogini db |
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great.... now i'm going to be singing stairway to heaven all day...
And so the closer we get to the guidance the clearer the messages become without the distortion. bill, there are many ways to say this... and, i believe it would be appropriate to state it as you have. (although others may feel more comfortable stating the same thing a different way.... just how it is) what i've been doing recently is not getting caught up in if it's my ego, *true* guidance, "god," the universe talking, etc., etc., etc., etc............. if it feels RIGHT from the deepest part of me, i'm going with it. it is what IT is.... and i have decided not to give IT a name. sit down before facts like a child, and be prepared to give up every preconceived notion, follow humbly wherever and to whatever abysses nature leads, or you shall learn nothing. - thomas huxley |
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simpleyogini |
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i tend to feel the same darlene....
my much used mantra... "what is...is what it is...." for me.....seem to spend too much time trying to analyze it and label it and wonder well is this what it is..taking me away from it....my mind tires of trying to figure everything out.... good thoughts from everyone... We do not need to be the same, or think the same But we can hold hands as fellow travelers in this life. |
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Kit Spahr |
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Darlene: You said..."and i have decided not to give IT a name". I'm so with you there.
Trying to name "IT" or unname "IT" is where I lose touch with the message and get caught in something that seems less important. God, not God, ego, not ego, Raj, not Raj....what was the message again? Oh shoot, I lost it. |
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lightdancer |
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SimplyBill wrote:Indeed!! Doubly! Yeah, if you wanna hear Jimmy then get close to the very place where he's coming through. And if your mind is the very place where guidance comes through, get as close as possible to it. And since it's your mind, there's no way to actually ever be away from it. But, because it's your mind and the activity there is mental, you can be mentally off somewhere else, preoccupied with other stuff, which distorts not only the message but the also the awareness of the fact that it's from none other than the calm depths of You where the message finds voice and expression. One voice. Either heard clearly through an aware mind or through the distortion of a preoccupied mind. Just my take on it. When all are one and one is all. To be a rock. And not to roll. |
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noswrite |
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Surprising to hear Patanjali, who scientifically and systematically categorized the practice of Yoga, referred to as a BIG head trip. Though, Osho certainly
took his ration of misunderstanding for reporting the news.
"Insight will occur spontaneously when you are in the thought-free now. Clarification will take place. Resolutions to problems will float into your awareness. Wisdom will arise. This will be much more satisfying than being worried or concerned with whatever your previous worries or concerns were. Therefore, practice accessing thought-free wakefulness, and find yourself spontaneously gaining clarity about what to do in any circumstance."
"I made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it short."
- Blaise Pascal |
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Erich Schiffmann |
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excellent quote!
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noswrite |
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Absolutely!
"I made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it short."
- Blaise Pascal |
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yogini db |
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Surprising to hear Patanjali, who scientifically and systematically categorized the practice of Yoga, referred to as a BIG head trip.
not exactly sure what you thought i meant, mark... i am not saying that patanjali's discoveries and the practice of yoga is a BIG head trip. what i am saying is that it can become a big head trip, and unnecessarily complex, if one allows it. sit down before facts like a child, and be prepared to give up every preconceived notion, follow humbly wherever and to whatever abysses nature leads, or you shall learn nothing. - thomas huxley |
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