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lightdancer	Re: body/form perception	#21	[-]
Posts: 11281 Dec 29 03 4:17 PM Asst. Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Ok, well, maybe I don't fully agree with my sentiment up there anymore...the one about the garments. I'll be back in a little bit, I'm sure.
kit(d)	Re: body/form perception	#22	[-]
Posts: 88 Dec 29 03 5:39 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I've heard Erich speak on this topic as well as what's been said here. Honestly? I don't find it that important (to me). What I "believe" death/metamorphosis/whatever to be is, to me, an intellectual exercise I might pursue to make myself feel better about the "unknown", "the mystery". I'll know when I'm in that moment such as it is. I, personally, find that practices that keep me in the moment will also provide the inner guidance I need during any transformation no matter how small or grand...how gradual or sudden. I try not to have an aversion to death (or whatever) nor a grasping after life (or whatever) either my own or someone elses. This post is not meant to denigrate anything anyone else has said or believes. I always remember reading a book by Edgar Cayce in which he said that when someone dies (to use the word in dispute here) one sees what one expects to see because that will be the most comforting thing for us in that moment. In other words we get a breather to help us through this particular transition. Made sense to me. But I know this sort of pursuit holds a lot of fascination for a lot of people. So enjoy! Kit
lightdancer	sorry...another question, please	#23	[-]
Posts: 11281 Dec 29 03 6:22 PM Asst. Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hi Kit - good to see you here. I agree with you..it doesn't really matter, and no one knows any of this stuff for sure. But, I do happen to be one of those people who finds this type of discussion utterly engaging. It's actually a practice that keeps me in the moment. My pupils get bigger, my sense of periphery widens...I feel really alive when I'm dialoging like this, time seems to just freeze and there just seems like one huge moment of is-ness. I get a giant sense of mind-expansiveness by talking about things like this. So I do apologize for droning on and on...but this stuff really stokes me. And I really don't mean to keep going on and on here, but I cant really get away from this. I go to do something else, and the questions keep coming back up. I think Im beginning to understand where youre coming from, Erich, but Im still testing it out, not yet buying it totally. So if youre willing, along with everyone else, to play along a bit more, I have another question. And Im thoroughly enjoying thisI hope you are too. Now what about this business of choice? You said this: And so, no, you have not chosen to put on this garment of a body. God did. You had no choice in the matter. Do you not think that we have choice in the matter of coming here in this particular place and time, in these particular circumstances, or are you talking about our individual form, specifically - that we have no choice in that? Are you saying that we have no influence or ability to manifest anything for ourselves, like our own morphation or other things that come our way? I have met people, 2 in particular, whom I know I have known before. I feel strongly that we agreed, somehow in the past, to meet up again and interact again for very specific reasons. This has the strong feeling-tone of knowing, not the feeling of fabrication. If I had no choice in the matter, how could this knowing be explained? (That's not very good wording, sorry, but I think you know what I mean.) We must have some choices in the morphation matter somewhere along the line, or else you wouldnt say that when we see clearly - remove the death filter - that it no longer becomes necessary to manifest disease and illness. Or are you saying that whatever happens happensif were going to get cancer, we simply will. That the only choice we have is to perceive all things as God-expressed or not?? That disease will still happen, only we wont be viewing it as diseaseits just another morph?? And if we have no choices at all about our morphing process, then what is the whole point of doing it at all? Are we merely Gods playthings, like David was wondering about, over in a different thread? Ok - I'm going to shut up now...at least for a while.
Davyji	Re: body/form perception	#24	[-]
Posts: 2834 Dec 29 03 7:27 PM Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Another angle is that the light is a carrier wave... we are wavelets on "the" ocean wavelets on "the" radio We dance around,oscillatting at specific frequencies,around the big frequency,dreaming,acting,living... talking about finding balance,centering ourselves around a common core, a common wave,the light. I see it as singng my singing bowl,depending on where the bowl rests,upon whichever surface morphs the bowl's form,and then when the bowl is played a different harmonic is unveiled,expressed,plays out,expressed through the bowl's positon/address,and interestingly the address continues to constantly change even as the bowlness remains,waiting to sing a mysteriously surprising yet familar tune. David
Davyji	Re: body/form perception	#25	[-]
Posts: 2834 Dec 29 03 7:32 PM Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	...and then I wonder,am I sure that there is only one carrier frequency,only one carrier wave,only one infinite resonating core,only one....hmmm God. And Carie,yes it matters,in my question I do not believe we are merely God's playthings,more we are godly playmates. I was questioning the Vedantic position,trying to understand how surrendering to God has importance,as Kit the question is down on my list. What matters is how I play this instrument of life I am given and what I give as a re-creating individual. It all passes through,and death becomes insignificant conceptually in timeless existence. David
lightdancer	Re: body/form perception	#26	[-]
Posts: 11281 Dec 29 03 8:15 PM Asst. Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Sorry if I got what you said wrong, David. I've said waaaay too much here today. Blah, blah, blah. bzzzt...that's the zipper on my mouth.
Unregistered(d)	Re: body/form perception	#27	[-]
Posts: 0 Dec 29 03 8:38 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I see no right or wrong here nor a matter of saying too much........just putting out cause to ponder.......that's always a good thing !! I appreciate all that's been shared in this thread....
aliemac	Way.	#28	[-]
Posts: 94 Dec 29 03 11:24 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Carie, I am way interested in what you are saying. Please don't inhibit yourself. Know you ARE AWESOME. Truly. This is good. amac
vv1234	Re: body/form perception	#29	[-]
Posts: 6570 Dec 30 03 1:29 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	One wonders if the self wants to experience the notbeing joined(of the infinite). I really do think each electric spark of us continues on and on infinitely. I know we have the capacity to physically change our cells, we do it sometimes unconciously and sometimes conciously. I can lower my blood pressure and heart rate, have been doing it for decades now. Think about this, a lot of us understand asking God/Universe/Goddess/Infinite/TPTB for direction and we listen for a response, we accept that. Should we buy the chewy bread or the soft easy to chew bread? BUY the soft bread...you know the rest of the story. But we have skepticism that we can manifest physical changes for better quality living. Or do we really not want to manifest physical changes for better quality living because what we really want is to rejoin the infinite? We hear of people who heal themselves of terminal illnesses and call it a miracle...might that also be because the unconciousness made one decision and then changed it's mind; to continue to experience individuality rather than the whole? And perhaps we do create our bodily selves, if we have complete infiniteness, as we are god why not? We could choose to be or experience whatever we think we'd like to experience. To believe I am the whole indicates (to me) that I have the power of creation, either at a physical gross level or otherwise. Just some ponderings for the evening.
lightdancer	Re: body/form perception	#30	[-]
Posts: 11281 Dec 30 03 8:22 AM Asst. Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Yes, Vv, that's what I'm saying too. I'm going to head over to Word and ponder some more in writing. Alie, thanks for your sweet words. I love you very much. I just felt like I had said too much yesterday....but today's another day! I'll be back in a few...
Davyji	Re: body/form perception	#31	[-]
Posts: 2834 Dec 30 03 8:27 AM Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hey Carie,perhaps some unintended tone caused a misunderstanding, derailing your thoughts. I was wondering if we are god's playthings,if we are in the hands of one other,with my approach questioning believing,prefer simply wondering,sooooo a pause is good,do not stop As vv pointed out there is this question on this thread... do we create ourselves,or are we created? The answer is somewhere in the middle of the question,as curious creatures are we pushed and pulled to look or simply a resistive spark open to the current of life,each spark another expression of love. So following this when we appear to die,the current still passes through us,is absorbed even more,densely compacted we again begin to spread ourselves into existence,the current is flowing through,we are still riding along even as others perceive us in a state of death. I had the funniest thought last night after reading about Sri Ramakrishna,what a funny man,his ecstatic states,his cross dressing,gender playing,his continual reminder to be aware of "woman and gold" and I thought if i believed in reincarnation,it would seem that Ramakrishna was a standup comic now reincarnated into Robin Williams David
jeannettel	Re: body/form perception	#32	[-]
Posts: 435 Dec 30 03 8:28 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Carie , my post wasn`t meant as a criticism . I am new to this discussion and after reading your posts I thought maybe I was being too simplistic.Please don`t stop writing.You are very eloquent, knowledgable and great to read.Wish I could spend hours talking to you.I get the same feeloings you describe from a discussion like this. jeannette
lightdancer	Re: body/form perception	#33	[-]
Posts: 11281 Dec 30 03 9:09 AM Asst. Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Wait a sec, everyone. I was just going to stop talking for a while because I felt like I was maybe dominating the thread...not because of what anybody said. It was just a me thing. David, you didn't have any tone...and I simply apologized for not getting your quote right. And, no, Jeanette, you didn't criticize me. Besides, if you had, then good! All this questioning and talking is excellent, in my opinion. Let's be very clear here. No one is right, no one is wrong. A true teacher knows he doesn't know (and this is very important). Dialog like this isn't meant to sway someone's opinion to "their side". We're all working together here to come to a better understanding of what the truth might be. Talking and questioning and looking at different sides of the equation makes us better teachers and students. When we're questioned, we have to stand behind what we say, and the more we say it, the more we learn. We help each other incredibly by doing this.
Davyji	Re: body/form perception	#34	[-]
Posts: 2834 Dec 30 03 9:59 AM Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Yea,what she said David
vv1234	Domination	#35	[-]
Posts: 6570 Dec 30 03 10:42 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Carie, Keep writing even if you feel you're dominating (which you are not). Sometimes it will take me a bit of time and a cup or coffee or two! before I can post a response. I love the conversation and you're last post, YES!
omcasey	Re: another question	#36	[-]
Posts: 8841 Dec 30 03 11:12 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	*Quote:* "If we are all misperceiving ourselves and others as just bodies and if we're choosing to identify ourselves and others by their bodies.... then how come what I see of myself, whether it's in the mirror or in pictures, and what others say they see of me is the same? Why is the misperception of my form as the body consistently the same?? It would seem that a misperception, by nature, would vary and would not be consistent, that clarity would be the only constant." This is an exceptional question. Felt to not let it get by. First of all, a relative point. There is Real Life and there is thought life. Althought there have been instances of the former, my primary experience to date evidences an emphasis to the latter. Even though what i'm about to say is from this place of considered thought, mostly - i believe i am facing in the right direction (so to speak)... Now - thought (itself): suggests it's own singularity, one source mental wave - also sometimes called mind, ego, i. thoughts: are rather like the plurality of source thought, particular mental waves in potential or manifest form, consecutive and/or random, immediately sourced in and by thought itself. idea: a gathering or compilation of thought. a body of grouped mental waves which form/elaborate/continue on a given thought, (for any, or no certain end). When considering Real 'Life only', it may at times come to be seen as helpful to have (or gain) some awareness of the particular thoughts which a compose the idea (of it). One thing is for sure. If nothing else, sooner or later, for those like me, a stunning view is won - the absolute enormity capable of being brought to manifest through the outward pouring of a simple single thought (!!!!). It may amuse, for a time. But then it will dizzy. Undoing even the most balanced of minds. The effect of lessening the tendency of want, to toss about in a monstrosity so, is sure to come about... i imagine Real 'Life only' to be rather simple, (and i'm tellin ya, i can hardly wait, @#$%!) - but, when given through to thought, my current arena of expertise $:\$ , a complexity of sorts is the common result. Not the mandatory result, mind you - but common. Because, Reality, when filtered through to thought, breeds. And that bred, then gets (at times viciously) considered... For instance - 'Life' (brought to thought), brings the idea of 'death'... Considering death, means considering a certain 'body', potentially born, with the capasity to experience/exhibit death. Also, a 'world' (space) for this body to go about it's living and dying. And, suggested too from this flow, (this body's 'entrance to exit' from this space) - is a certain length of measure (time). And on, and on, and on - forever... Now, figuring a way through a particular thought can be fun. It's true. But a seemingly endless outward pouring of thought?, well, that gets tiring. And it's sorta the long way about it... Now-a-days, i like to consolidate. From Reality/Life, stems mind/original thought - and from original thought, come the many other relative thoughts. (this is how simple-formed Reality becomes multi-formed. by bringing Real Life to thought...) Thought itself becomes multi-formed (ie: more complex), when any certain thought is aroused from its potential state, and drawn to flow outward, until anywhere from partially to fully manifest. This is where misperception begins it's play. At the instance of thought, rather than the Real, being brought to manifest. So... Carie , the mirror, the pictures, the others - they all have something in common. What is this something? Perhaps it is that they each reflect the one to whom they are presenting. And who is this one? It is you, yes? So, you (subject), being what is common to the rest (objects), sorta points an ominous arrow straight toward you, as the source of all that you see. If it is (only) you who is the source of all that you see, then there is no variable by which to make an inconsistant. All that arises, (the mirror, the pictures, the others, etc.) - does so by the one who makes it so. Beautiful you. YOU are the constant. Assisting you to become adept at drawing your own attention, is the only purpose of the rest. When you have it, hold fast... What a ride! casey
lightdancer	Re: another question	#37	[-]
Posts: 11281 Dec 30 03 2:25 PM Asst. Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	...and I mean that in the most loving way. Oh lordy, lordy, lemme javanate on that one... I'll be back.
vv1234	Re: another question	#38	[-]
Posts: 6570 Dec 30 03 2:43 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Casey, I also thought that was an important question. My comments about why we see the same form of outer body is that for some people it's not the same form. I mean, it is, a head, shoulders, arms, etc but how many times is there a dysmorphic view of ones body? I know tons of people who think they are fat. They aren't or at least I don't see them as fat. Or anorexic people, they see something really different than what I see. To me, it's the same thing as seeing a very attractive person that has a terrible personality (to me) and I find them getting more and more unattractive as I equate the inner ickiness to the outer form. Or vice versa, a very unattractive form that becomes more pleasing as the inner light shines thru. I think we have a universal agreement that solid form has a particular structure to it, a chair is a chair, a car a car, a human a human. But the inner form, the essence can be as expansive, as freeform as one could imagine.
lightdancer	Re: another question	#39	[-]
Posts: 11281 Dec 30 03 3:39 PM Asst. Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	But I think Erich is saying that there is no inner form and no outer form. Only one. Perceived clearly or unclearly. My question was, essentially, if we are perceiving our form clearly then what do we see? For example, if I see myself in the mirror, in photos, and everyone else sees the same thing when they look at me....then how is it that we are all misperceiving in the same way? If I look at you, Vv, I see certain external features, certain identifyable characteristics that make you recognizable as Vv to me. If we were perceiving correctly, what would we see? Just light? Or what?
vv1234	Re: another question	#40	[-]
Posts: 6570 Dec 30 03 4:29 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Ha! What do you think? I personally think there would be no difference between you and I, we would be one. Think of it this way, you can't see electricity right? You know it's there, you can feel the energy in the air but there is no visible form. Thats what we'd be.

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