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depression

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aprilnight	depression	Lead	[-]
Posts: 11 Feb 10 07 2:47 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tags : None i've been depressed for 4 years and i've been doing yoga for 4 years. i do yoga for the hope that it might help but after 4 years i'm starting to give up. thing seem to get worse as time goes on. i feel completely disconnected. i still have no clue how to do yoga (what i'm supposed to be learing, how to clean up a pose, etc.). i feel completely lost.
Dancing Lotus	Re: depression	#1	[-]
Posts: 5319 Feb 10 07 2:56 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	April, Have you sought help from someone who deals with depression professionally? That might be a good idea! Sending you ((((((((((((((( ))))))))))))))))))) big time! kathleen
drrona	Re: depression	#2	[-]
Posts: 15521 Feb 10 07 3:10 PM Asst. Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	hi april, i'm in complete agreement with kathleen also do you like your yoga practice? do you practice alone or with a class? what kind of or style (if any) do you practice? do you feel connected at all when you do yoga or do you feel like or are you told that you're doing it all wrong (i only ask that because i sort of get that feel from what you wrote above) the sources of depression can lie deep or maybe u know what's irking you professional help is valuable i know i've sought it out myself in times when i felt really sad and depressed i hope you'll answer here and also seek out someone to assist you on your journey with much love sincerely, rona
yogini db	Re: depression	#3	[-]
Posts: 4970 Feb 10 07 3:33 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	april, we're all here for you. are you taking yoga classes, or practicing on your own. both are good, but if you're looking for guidance in poses, etc, you'll want to find a good class/teacher... or two... or three. are you practicing any breathing techniques and/or meditation? imo, being still and connecting with your breath in the beginning of your practice is important. notice how the breath has it's own wisdom. it happens all by itself. no need for effort. meditation may also be helpful. it helps you "slide into the feeling of peace" (as erich says). maybe consider getting erich's meditation cd. there is a book that may interest you... body mind balancing: using your mind to heal your body by osho his insights are wonderful. he looks at treating the body/mind as a whole. please consider seeing a therapist, if you are not currently. i don't know what your exact situation is, but talking with someone may help you get clear on some things. much love and peace to you. darlene
Shakti Das	Re: depression	#4	[-]
Posts: 9839 Feb 10 07 4:26 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hi Aprilnight (lovely name), What style of yoga do you do and who have you practiced with? If you are only doing exercises then that might things worse as you might wind up comparing yourself with others down an endless road of comparative worth (sucks). On the other hand body,mind yoga (like Darlene mentions) has helped countless people, because it is all about balancing, purifying, activating, and integrating the nervous system. If you ever get a chance to take a class from Angela Farmer (she is very much into the deep feelings and energetics of hatha yoga) or other teachers of her caliber, you might get exposed to a whole new dimension of yoga that is often "lacking' in the average exercise approach to yoga. In short approaching asanas as a mechanical discipline in attempting to master a pose will not positively affect your spiritual situation or neuro-endocrine system, however if you ask and hold the question throughout your practice "what can your asana do for you", versus "what can I do for the asana", then you will be better able to focus on the emotional relationships to the soma/body as it's all interconnected for sure. So if I may ask, do suffer from mood swings (manic and then depressive)? How deep is the depression (like is clinical so that you are not able to move or go out of the house)? Are there themes to the depression (like nihilism, cynicism, skepticism, paranoia, lack of self esteem, or do you just feel generally disconnected from other people and a synergistic relationship? Victory to the Mother JAI MA! Donny "Because of indifference, one dies before one actually dies." ~Elie Wiesel.
simpleyogini	Re: depression	#5	[-]
Posts: 6184 Feb 10 07 8:19 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	gee I can't add anything to what everyone has already said.... but just want to tell you.... you are not alone....there is so much support here on this board.. keep us informed of how things are going for you....
pam	Re: depression	#6	[-]
Posts: 1194 Feb 11 07 6:50 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	April...I can really empathize with your situation as I have endured a 3-year depression that I finally recognized, received treatment for (I went to my medical doctor and do counseling and medication) and am hopeful of moving beyond (to a cure? I hope so...I hope not to have to continue medication long term). My yoga practice and teaching suffered. In fact, I stopped teaching for a year....just recently am moving slowly back in to it. I think we can teach much from our own growth experiences. I also made a commitment to have an ayurvedic massage once a month and I do other things daily to nurture my own well-being....there is a lot we can do. I highly recommend a book called "Feeling Good - The New Mood Therapy" by David D. Burns, M.D. It has been very helpful for me. Much of my own depression is actually a function of the way I think about my life experiences and judge myself....unfortunately!!! goes way back...but I have found it very helpful. I always recommend taking yoga classes that leave you feeling refreshed and energized...for me, that meant going to beginner classes again...or doing a very gentle (although I still practice for one hour plus) practice on my own. I try to listen inwardly and give myself what comes from that intuition. Sometimes it doesn't look like a 'typical' yoga class at all....but it sure feels good! Are you practicing solely on your own at home? with books or videos? I think it's really a good idea to get out of the house and be with people (as long as, as has been said, we don't get in that competive mode or mindset....) Maybe take a beginners series....? gentle classes.... I know how it feels to feel 'disconnected.' Most of the time, at least for me, that means I have to take the first step, reach out to friends, identify and initiate activities that make me feel good, or happy, or entertain me....etc. It's tough, but you will get through it. If you want to chat off line about this, please send a message to my ezbox... Hang in there.... Shanti Pam Edited to correct my incorrect spelling of the word 'initiate' - in true 'self-critical' form..I couldn't leave it like that!
RobynLGibson	Re: depression	#7	[-]
Posts: 3071 Feb 11 07 7:42 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	April, Depression shows up in many shapes and forms. Your post helped move me into "my reality". I never like to think of myself as depressed, but as I grow wiser I see that it can certainly manifest in different ways. My mom died recently and I have been acting out with shopping. It is a form of self medication that is not helping with anything but delay of grief. Fighting staying away from the grief is just prolonging the inevitable and thankfully I realized it and recognize it as depression. Now that I have the awareness I can change the behavior. I trust that you will feel better as soon it is time for you to feel better. Pam has offered her experience, her help, and excellent suggestions. For me it always helps to know that I am not out there alone in any situation. Om Shanti Robyn p.s. There have been excellent suggestions from many people!
Dancing Lotus	Re: depression	#8	[-]
Posts: 5319 Feb 11 07 11:39 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Thanks everyone for your replies to April Great stuff, especially Pam and Robyn. April We look forward to hearing from you, and as many here indicated, you are not alone. kathleen
ginaeasp	depression	#9	[-]
Posts: 107 Feb 11 07 5:07 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I just wanted to add my support to all that has already been offered & said here. Support helps. Life is tought sometimes. Solutions are hard to create. Answers can be few and far between. Energy ...there may not be much and this is when you could use it most. So-take support and energy and understanding and love from us, if it helps. Sending positive prana your way-express!
quiltybug	depression	#10	[-]
Posts: 15 Feb 11 07 7:35 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Sorry if this shows up twice - These are things that helped me get out of a major depression. They all worked together to make me better. 1. Medication 2. Psychiatrist that I liked (had to switch to find the right one for me) 3. Good counselor who I met with weekly 4. Private lessons with an Anusara yoga teacher who came to my house and focused on breath and quieting the mind in the poses. 5. Belleruth Naparstek's Health Journeys Guided Imagery for People Experiencing Depression 6. Book: "Do I Have to Give Up Me to be Loved By God" which really isn't about what the title says if you ask me. It's about taking care of your self on the deepest level and healing old wounds. The yoga clases and therapy were big investments. I've also added monthly massage therapy. To pay for these "luxuries" that I previously would never have considered, I've cut out other things that aren't as important to me. For me it has been so worth it. I hope you find what works for you. Glad you're here. The people on this board are great. I usually just read and soak up their wisdom and inspiration.
Suzanne LaForest	Re: depression	#11	[-]
Posts: 10646 Feb 12 07 9:02 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I'm working through the same thing. It feels totally indulgent, but right now it's all about me. I am getting massage therapy weekly, going to a therapist weekly, and doing things like getting my nails done, my hair done. Also seeing a dietician, exercising more. I really needed all of this stuff to get off my butt and it is working. Financially it can be a big drain, but some of it is not as expensive as you think. I get the massage at the local massage school, where it is cheaper. The dietician only charges $100 for 7 sessions. The therapy is the biggest expense, but one of the most important ones. In time I will meet a deductible and insurance will pick up the cost. And people here are really great, too. There's no requirement that you actually be doing yoga poses to be on this discussion board, only that you want to share in our community. No one checks your credentials. It's a nice place to check in with. But it doesn't replace physical contact with others, either. Be the realized teacher.
sifumary	depression	#12	[-]
Posts: 542 Feb 12 07 4:37 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Usually I am depressed for quite a while before I realize I'm depressed. Recognizing depression is the first step. Wanting to do something about it is the 2nd step. What's the 3rd step? I usually get stuck here. So I look inward for solutions or I ask for outside help. I understand that my depression is my 'dark night of the soul" and I can't avoid it. I just have to get through it. Keep trying and don't give up. It can be awkward, frustrating and downright messy. Know yourself. Trust yourself. Love yourself. Mary Watson
Shakti Das	Re: depression	#13	[-]
Posts: 9839 Feb 12 07 4:48 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	According to yoga, the cause of depression is due to specific patterns of the mind. Hence yogis recommend looking within, to discover how the mind works, how depression works, and the true potential of the mind. Usually meditation (like observing the mind processes or vrttis over a prolong sit) is the major practice. Indeed self knowledge (self awareness of one's own mental processes allows us to no longer wander into such negative patterns. The answer is inside -- in knowing how your mind works. The practice is yoga as an awareness practice. "Because of indifference, one dies before one actually dies." ~Elie Wiesel.
Davyji	Re: depression	#14	[-]
Posts: 2834 Feb 12 07 5:46 PM Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Namaste Mary and Donny! In addition to recognizing the pattern it can also be helpful to understand how the pattern was initially imprinted,which in yoga can be a sudden waking up to the cause which effects emotional stability,causes the sadness and deepening depression of a vibrant outlook. There is the potential beyond relaxing into/about the recognition of mental patterns,to go deeper,actually do something about rerouting the patterns. Battling depression can be as simple as ordinary activities,doing something that brings joy,like my spouse,she crafts,makes stuff like blankets as gifts. That patterning joy of gift giving,actually making something for someone and giving it to them is joy,for her. She struggles with depression,in cycles,due to chronic illness. With yoga we view the cycle of samsara and nirvana,which can be described grossly as sadness and joy. This leads to viewing depression and joy in degrees of affliction and wellness. Take this another step with yoga and the struggle of samsara and nirvana are quite descriptive. So what would cause sadness? I am always sad when something traumatic happens,sad for myself,sad for anyone else effected by the trauma,generally feeling bad the event lead to a depressing situation,the feelings linger and I begin to dwell on the events and the situation. Yoga brings back the stability in the situation,once the trauma has passed,even momentarily,that transitioning space of calm is a sign of potential equanimaty,perhaps happiness and joy. In practice this is viewing the sadness after the trauma as small compared to the trauma,so small that even with evidence of suffering and pain,the sad depressive feelings fade,dissolve & disappear like clouds revealing clear sky. The negative emotions are empty,a cloudy day transistioning into a clear evening sunset,empty as sky. With meditation these small emotional responses can simply settle and fade,revealing the sky like nature of mindful awareness,we know joy in the moment. Knowing the sadness,knowing the joy,we can then choose to do what brings joy not only to ourselves,others also! Making a new pattern. Good Luck! David
Shakti Das	Re: depression	#15	[-]
Posts: 9839 Feb 12 07 6:45 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Yes, exactly. That takes the discussion to another level. For if we acknowledge the causes of mental distress or suffering, then that allows to take responsibility for changing the causes. WOW! Mental suffering or grief, has a cause and in general its always ignorance or confusion attachment to a dualistic vision of separate self. So just not trauma, but the expectation of upcoming trauma or doom, can create gloom, fear, and depression. For a real life example, if one knows that ones father, wife, son, or dog is going to die, then a feeling of personal loss my ensue. If a threatening retaliation is coming our way, we may become anxious or even overwhelmed by the possible negative consequences. The cause is the same, attachment. Anything that we love in the temporal/profane (dualistic) way that going to be taken away, will create anxiety or feelings of gloom and grief, until we become unattached open to non-dual reality and change. I like your analogy, that suffering is due to mind made attachments to dualistic reality or samsara, while liberation from a life of grief is thus possible by waking up (nirvana). Really very simple. Hence the answer is always the same letting go of ego attachments and waking up, but what do people usually do when they are depressed? They go on a shopping spree or engage in even more neurotic self absorption/self gratifying activities instead of facing their inner demon. the answer is so simple; i.e., let go of these attachments and look toward the true nature of mind. Instead of running away from our fears, just stare them back in the face and stop creating bad karma by not acting on negative emotions (kleshas). Action on teh kleshas create negative karma and conditions which in turn create suffering. That is what Patanjali says and he offers yogis many solutions. "Because of indifference, one dies before one actually dies." ~Elie Wiesel.
soylaolayelmar	Re: depression	#16	[-]
Posts: 3371 Feb 12 07 7:07 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Such amazing compassion here...... Thank you...
Erich Schiffmann	Re: depression	#17	[-]
Posts: 5485 Feb 12 07 8:29 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Awesome post, Donny! True stuff, truly. Erich
Davyji	Re: depression	#18	[-]
Posts: 2834 Feb 12 07 8:36 PM Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Along with Patanjali's methods for confronting and liberating the suffering of depressive fears, there are Buddha's four noble truths. We can easily use depression rather than suffering,saying depression is real, depression has causes, there is a way to recover from depression, following the path of recovery from depression is the cure. So Mary, two ways to re/uncover a sense of true nature,consciously, is yoga and meditation. Donny in the meditation thread offered more details of what can be done,specifically with meditation and yogic exercises,to awaken from repressive,disturbing thoughts and emotions. It is interesting that Patanjali talks about fear while Buddha uses the word suffering. We fear suffering and suffer in our fear,both emotional responses to traumatic or fabricated pain. Both masters point out that recognizing them as real is the first step,then we know what to let go. Afterwards,upon reflection they seem like nothing much at all,in fact did they exist anywhere but in the mind, were the afflictive emotions only real in relation to the mind that supported them and does the mind exist only to support one's reality? In this light sadness gets smaller and smaller,until all our fears are viewed as small and changeable/releasable in relationship to a bigger mind view of a clear cloudless sky. David
Davyji	Re: depression	#19	[-]
Posts: 2834 Feb 12 07 8:45 PM Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Heidi and Erich Wonder what happened to April? David
Lillylulu	Re: depression	#20	[-]
Posts: 4291 Feb 12 07 8:57 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	really nice post david (your 1st one...still have to read what was just posted)!! i agree with what you, donny and others are leading the conversation into...recognizing the cause helps to find freedom from the sadness...coping strategies seem to help and may be what we need temporarily, but willingness to take your practice into the heart of depression itself and see what's there can be liberating... i experienced this profoundly the first year doing yoga...i did a workshop with Baron Baptiste...he asked at the beginning what did we bring here to offer. that kind of floored me. i thot i had come just for me. and here was a nudge to give instead...the asana was absolutely cleansing for me. the whole energy in the room shifted with everyone's offerings... i had never experienced anything like this before. at the end in prayer pose we were guided back to ask something for ourself...i asked directly about the sadness that was following me around for a very long time. i could see for the very first time where the sadness came from...it was so clear. with this came a beautiful answer to give to others what it was that i wanted and thot i needed from them... here was the offering first and the receiving also that followed... i know this is my experience and maybe has nothing to do with another's depression. we all share our yoga practice, though. i don't think we can just use our practice to cover up stuff that makes us feel hurt...we have to get in there and feel... lil

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