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spookycat	question for teachers	Lead	[-]
Posts: 91 (05/12/08 14:39:10) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None Hello all, I never seem to get here as often as I would like, bummer, life hopefully is going to calm down for me this summer. I finally, after too many years, am able to take yoga with a teacher and class, such a nice break from doing it by myself. However, small problem I would like to ask the teachers here, or anyone else with an opinion. My first class was good, but the second he surprised me by doing some partner yoga, and I have never done partner yoga. The third class, he did partner yoga again, this time for a bit longer, so he is extending the time we are doing partner. Now, there were descriptions of each class put up on the net to help people decide what class is best for them before they signed up, and nothing was mentioned in class description about partnering. Frankly I am not comfortable with it and not enjoying it at all. Also, the first person I partnered with had a bad back, but she did not admit it to me until after we did the partnering poses, which of course were all backbends. I mean, she said she was okay that I was very gentle, but she should have told me or the teacher beforehand she had a bad back. Do you know what I mean? I would not have signed up for this class if I had know. Has partnering become a "normal" part of regular yoga classes, maybe I am out of touch, what I mean to say is, should it not have been mentioned in the class description to give people a heads up? I am not ready for partner yoga, and now I have to make a choice, either sit out during that time or stop going to the classes. bummer. opinions? (visit me on myspace http://www.myspace.com/yogancats sometime, I have a new profile) Come away, O human child! To the waters and the wild With a faery hand in hand, For the world's more full of weeping than you can understand. W.B. Yeats
mugwagilly		#1	[-]
Posts: 479 (05/12/08 15:23:42) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hi-- Personally, I don't teach partner yoga at all because unless it's a group of people that knows each other well (which you may not know as a teacher) then you can make people uncomfortable and that's the last thing I want to do in a class. I have a friend who sometimes does a partner yoga pose or two in class but it's like once a year just to do something different. I agree with you that if partner yoga was going to be a regular part of the program it should have been advertised as such. Partner yoga is not normally a part of a yoga class unless specified. You might try talking to the teacher to see if it's something he's experimenting with (he might have just done a partner yoga training) or whether it's going to be a normal part of the class. cheers, kelly
flow2susie		#2	[-]
Posts: 1835 (05/12/08 16:15:40) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I totally agree with Kelly. Teachers should teach what they say they will teach. I LOVE partner yoga, but I think it can be very intimidating (and actually dangerous!) for people who do not understand the importance of partners communicating...constantly during the session. I personally have been injured in partner yoga situations by partners just randomly assigned, like..."OK, find a partner..." I still love it though!
drrona		#3	[-]
Posts: 11616 (05/12/08 17:35:36) Asst. Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	i think if the teacher is regularly doing partner yoga it should be incorporated into the class description so u can (like yousay) pick the class(es) that best suit your wants and needs. i think kelly may have hit it too when she said maybe he/she just took a partner training ... who knows best to talk to the teacher about it and if u'r not enjoying it sit out and do u'r OWN freeform during that time if other partner up and u don't want to keep us posted hope u find a cool class that u throughly enjoy love rona "I am a little pencil in the hand of a writing God who is sending a love letter to the world." Mother Teresa
aystam		#4	[-]
Posts: 32 (05/14/08 15:15:01) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	it's not usual and I agree it should be advertised if it's a regular part of the class. Talk to the teacher, may be just a phase as suggested, or he may have no idea people might not be into it like he is I've occasionally been in a class where the teacher decided to do some for a change and I don't like that. I don't enjoy it with a random person I don't know, and I think it's too easy for someone to get injured.
Kit Spahr		#5	[-]
Posts: 145 (05/15/08 04:30:09) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I'd definitely say something, in a nice way. Years ago I used to do partner yoga in class from time to time. No one ever said a thing at the time. But later, as I got to know some of those people as friends they'd tell stories about how uncomfortable they were doing most partner yoga postures. There are a few that people seem to like okay which I'll toss in from time to time. And I remember myself being in a yoga class and having the teacher ask us to partner up to do a downward facing dog partner pose...One person was lying on their back, the other person did down dog over them. The floor person pressed their feet into the hip joints of the down dog person. Now it actually "feel" pretty good...but I was partnered with a guy I didn't know. His face was right up next to mine and it felt waaaay to intimate with a stranger.
purnayoga		#6	[-]
Posts: 246 (05/15/08 21:43:18) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I have a bit of a different view. Go figure, right? There is partner yoga where you and another person are doing the same pose, at the same time, and you are thus intertwined in the asana. Then there is partnerING in yoga where one is doing and the other is assisting. If it were the first of these then yes it does seem like the class should be offered as such. If it is the second, I offer the following for your perusal: Since Yoga itself is about relationship (to the Self, others, and to the planet)... If yoga (asana) were completely comfortable it would not be yoga at all, now would it. Part of the practice, in fact part of our evolution as human beings either emanates from that discomfort or is a part of the growth process. So when we, as yoga students, are uncomfortable with something it is an opportunity for evolution, begging a deeper self-study. That may reveal that we should NOT be doing the thing in question OR it may reveal that we have something churned up by the practice for us to SEE. For me, since the planet seems to be highly populated with human beings, I prefer my students get used to them being here and work through any issues about touching them, sweating near them, smelling them, helping them, or being helped by them. As a teacher it is my mandate to encourage my students to come out from behind the masks or shadows in which they dwell in their off-the-mat world. At the same time, I want to emphasize (to the readership here) that this should not be executed in a way that intimidates or wilts the student. It's a very tricky spot and requires compassion, skill, and mindfulness. Shifting to a pragmatic perspective, there are times in class where we do work in pairs. I don't advertise it because I don't teach in that way week in and week out. It is not THE class but on occasion it is part of the class. When my theme for class calls for it I use it freely without any thought of "how will everyone like this?". And it is a marvelous way to see students react with other students. We don't live in a vacuum. It provides important feedback about my students. Additionally it's a nice way to break down some very pretentious barriers and enhance the sense of community among people who are coming together for a common purpose - not just walking in because they have a spare moment. One last bit and that is the issue of a student withholding an injury from the teacher. The teacher should know the bodies they are working with. It's part of the job. It is part of the teacher-student relationship. And the student contribution to that is important but so is the teacher's vision. If the student does not tell the teacher or the partner then it's on them. If the student DID tell the teacher then it falls on the teacher to either set the pairings in a sane way (senior students) or step in and modify the assist for that pairing - presuming it was risky situation. ========================== The spoken word is your master, the unspoken word your slave. Last Edited By: purnayoga 05/15/08 21:49:34. Edited 1 times.
Grandstaff	Some thoughts...	#7	[-]
Posts: 1080 (05/16/08 11:36:48) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I've been in many a yoga class, workshop, etc. where we were asked to do partner yoga. Not as a class-long exercise, but as a five or ten minute 'deviation' from the regular practice. I have to agree with PY. And here's a clue... it makes me slightly uncomfortable even with someone I love! Someone I know! I am a very independent person and have little invasion of my private space (with the exception of my beloved cat...) I tend to share my interior spaces with far more regularity. There's the paradox... I get regular opportunities to open up energetically and emotionally, spiritually and mentally, but not physically. So, here comes the moment when the teacher asks us to partner up: discomfort. Stop. Pause. Ask questions. Some suggestions: Where is my discomfort coming from? Do I have some shame of myself? My practice? My body? (etc.) Does the other person disgust me? Is the other person so very different from who I am? Are we truly all one? If there is incidental contact, will it kill me? Will it cause other emotions/reactions? If so, what are those emotions/reactions? How will I feel when this is over? Relieved? Awful? Inspired? Surprised? Only one way to find out. Do it. The way I tend to make the connection in these precarious moments is the way I do it any other time-- times which, quite honestly, don't involve physical proximity on such an intimate scale-- I open my heart and my eyes, make good eye contact and decide to Love that person. After that, it eases up, they feel the energy flowing from me and respond (sometimes not believing their own response in kind). Invariably, after we are done, I can see the pleasant surprise, the warmth in their eyes, the thrill that they did it and felt good about it, the excitement of having overcome more than a physical boundary... sigh.. so hard to describe in words. But I have found that those questions (examples above) will remain unasked... on one's mat and at home... if partner yoga situations are avoided. And IMHO, unasked questions contribute to inner dis-ease. We are all so eager to treat the outward physical symptoms of disease, but so afraid to face the inner symptoms of dis-ease. If yoga is to do one thing well, it should be to provide powerful tools to examine those darker, dustier corners of our existence. If those places inside me remain unexamined, it's not much of a yoga practice on my part. Not really. Grandstaff "Ego excludes, confidence includes. There is nothing subtle about the difference." ~C.F.C.
Lillylulu		#8	[-]
Posts: 2738 (05/16/08 12:43:29) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	i agree that partner yoga can really provide an opportunity to open up. i can remember doing ardha chandrasana with a stranger and it was totally intertwined and amazing. to move slowly into it and really trust this other person to support and at the same time do it for them...it was breathtaking to experience. the other nite i partnered up with this man who had to be almost 80. the sharing that happened was precious. it was even awkward, but the energy of the posture enabled us to move right thru that. he was very sweet at the end with his simple namaste... all these judgements we can have about the person one mat over or two and then face to face that totally changes. i love this: As a teacher it is my mandate to encourage my students to come out from behind the masks or shadows in which they dwell in their off-the-mat world. lil
KFN		#9	[-]
Posts: 3532 (05/16/08 20:38:43) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Occasionally I include a few partner poses in my classes, and a bit more often partner assisted poses. I am pretty well aware of which of my regulars are less comfortable with partnering, and which truly love it, and will encourage the less comfortable ones to push the edge of their comfort zone, but leave them an out. I really stress communicating with each other and being cautious with assists. Personally, I love partner poses, and am fairly comfortable even with someone I don't know well, but have been a bit disturbed in another teacher's class when a pose felt, as Kit said, "waaaay too intimate with a stranger", or when I felt that something really unsafe was being taught. I once partnered with a guy to demonstrate a triangle to revolved triangle partner flow because I didn't want anyone else to have to be his partner, and he yanked me around in the twist part of the sequence so hard it took a couple of visits to the chiro to fix. GS, loved the clarity and presence in your post! karen
soylaolayelmar		#10	[-]
Posts: 2116 (05/17/08 03:52:44) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I love this purna ... '''For me, since the planet seems to be highly populated with human beings, I prefer my students get used to them being here and work through any issues about touching them, sweating near them, smelling them, helping them, or being helped by them."""" Yes....also agree big dif between partner yoga & partnering up to assist each other... Lil ...sounds like a sweet experience.....he was fortunate to be coupled with you !!! :luv
Kit Spahr		#11	[-]
Posts: 146 (05/17/08 04:07:41) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I think there are all kinds of issues with partner poses...depending on the sort of pose. Skillfull assists from a partner can be great. Not everyone is skillful. Opening up to one's tendency to retreat from others can be a great learning experience. But its sort of like telling a student they should "face their fears" and do handstand (or something like that). I'm not sure its a yoga teachers place to decide when and where someone should face their fears. I also find that there are sometimes differences in different parts of the country. Some people are just more reserved than others. And then there are the unsafe moves...I was in a workshop once where the instructor had a room full of people of all different skill levels dropping their partners back into backbends. There were many teachers in the room and if you got partnered with one of them you were probably okay. But there were some who were very tentative and nervous and their partners were not well supported. That being said, one very cold day this winter when the heat was out in my yoga space, I had everyone do back to back meditation with a partner. Simple...anyone can do it. They loved it and asked to do it again, even if it wasn't freezing! I don't think partner work is in and of itself good or bad. I just think teachers need to be sensitive to the room. Kit
soylaolayelmar		#12	[-]
Posts: 2117 (05/17/08 06:06:15) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	very nice Kit !!!
purnayoga		#13	[-]
Posts: 247 (05/17/08 16:46:39) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	An additional word about partnerING and safety/skillfulness. Such things absolutely need to be considered and championed by the teacher. A certain level of familiarity between teacher and students coupled with experienced practitioners provide the latitude for more complex work. So as a teacher you LOOK around the room. So many of us do not look and see. It is quite sad. We miss so much. And in that looking the determination is made [inner thought] "can we do this work with this group in a very safe but effective way?". Yes? Then demo the work - especially the assist. After the demo LOOK into the eyes of everyone in the room and ask "do you understand?" The eyes will not lie. One vapid look and consider demo part two:-) If they still don't get it, do something simpler. Please do not allow yourself to be injured in an assist from either an unskilled teacher or an unmindful student - unless of course you've somehow come to the conclusion it is your dharma to do so. This applies (for me) to partnerING not partner yoga. If there are partner poses I'd certainly want to know such a thing upfront. ========================== The spoken word is your master, the unspoken word your slave. Last Edited By: purnayoga 05/17/08 16:49:24. Edited 1 times.
madeaux		#14	[-]
Posts: 98 (05/17/08 18:08:08) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Purna, Kit, and Grandstaff have very eloquently described my opinion on partner assisting in yoga classes. I want to add one more thing though, and that is when you partner-assist someone, you are taking the role of teacher for that moment (adjusting, giving verbal feedback). I find this to be an incredible tool for learning. When I started teaching yoga, that is when I feel like I really began learning it. Watching someone else's body and watching the effects of your words and actions upon their body offers opportunities for learning about your own body that are not available alone on your mat. Of course, this does not apply to partner yoga, where both people are practicing together, and I agree that this should be reserved for specified classes or perhaps an occasional treat if the students all know each other well and are into it. mado
Grandstaff		#15	[-]
Posts: 1082 (05/17/08 21:00:31) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Yes, all good, wise words! Absolutely, in the physical part of the practice, the ultimate responsibility is going to be on the student... who, even in regular (not partnered) asana practice, should never move into an area of physical pain. I do believe, however, that spooky cat was asking about the emotional/psychological aspects of doing some partnering poses in group classes. I don't recall the question being one of "is it safe?" which is why I didn't address that aspect. KFN, PY and Kit did provide additional information about the physical side of it... excellent commentary. I thank you all... and because we know so many folks come to this public yoga message board and never really "join" MIS, this will stand here for a long time, answering questions that may have been typed into a search engine like Google, reaching a much broader audience than we might imagine. So just a clarification... I still want to stress my support of PY's comments about looking around the world we live in and seeing other human beings. There need to be ways to connect, especially as yoga students and practitioners, teachers from moment to moment, with others around us. To simply espouse "Namaste" verbally at the end of a class or on a message board is not enough. One needs to practice this principle, and if the relative safety (percentage-wise) in a group yoga class-- where others are there for similar reasons-- isn't 'safe enough' to internally practice "Namaste" then I guess it never will be out on the streets, byways, and walks of Life. Grandstaff "Ego excludes, confidence includes. There is nothing subtle about the difference." ~C.F.C. Last Edited By: Grandstaff 05/18/08 14:57:17. Edited 1 times.
KFN		#16	[-]
Posts: 3533 (05/17/08 22:16:07) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	GS, yes! Connection and community are things I definitely want to encourage in the classes I teach and be part of in those I take. Purna also said Additionally it's a nice way to break down some very pretentious barriers and enhance the sense of community among people who are coming together for a common purpose - not just walking in because they have a spare moment. A simple thing I do to foster a sense of community in my classes is to have everyone introduce themselves to new people at the beginning of class. Also, I make a serious effort to learn and use students names during class... and if I've forgotten one, I just apologize for the brain malfunction and ask again. It surprises me how often this isn't the case when I visit other classes. karen
purnayoga		#17	[-]
Posts: 248 (05/18/08 22:05:46) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	This is one of the more fascinating threads on this forum. I'm very grateful to Spookycat for posting it and creating the traction for such a discourse. Of course my joy may simply be that there aren't too many dissenting opinions LOL. We all have our work. madeaux "when you partner-assist someone, you are taking the role of teacher for that moment (adjusting, giving verbal feedback)' This is different for me (or for us in Purna Yoga). The teacher remains the teacher. The assistor is merely a human prop - granted one with some power and some energy depending on the help. But there is NO talking, just doing. The fewer words the more dharana. And the doer is absolutely in control of the amount of efforting of the assist, the push, the pull. But we do not have other students adjust students. And what is done is done with the advanced level classes, though there are certainly varying levels of practitioners in Aadil's 4-5 classes. grandstaff "To simply espouse "Namaste" verbally at the end of a class or on a message board is not enough." Touché! Yoga is to be lived. ========================== The spoken word is your master, the unspoken word your slave.
Kit Spahr		#18	[-]
Posts: 147 (05/19/08 04:56:57) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I think I did address, a little vaguely I admit, to soul connection in partner yoga. Some people are more reserved and are not comfortable in partner situations. Perhaps they "should" be. But its not up to me to force that issue. So as Purna said, I see the room in that sense too. Not just skill levels but will there be someone here who is not comfortable with this work...i.e. how challenging in terms of touch will the partner posture(s) be. There is connection on a human level in most of my classes, although I don't pretend to be the author of it. They share with each other before and after class. There's a lot of laughter and lately as parents have passed or spouses have been ill, support in the form of hugs and offers of assistance. And then there are the "cat people"...always sharing the latest cat escapades. These kinds of "namaste" connections seem more important to foster than asanas connections. Kit
drrona		#19	[-]
Posts: 11672 (05/19/08 06:53:24) Asst. Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	very good discourse here on partnering and partner yoga etc thanks i'm learning a lot from your input(s) love rona "I am a little pencil in the hand of a writing God who is sending a love letter to the world." Mother Teresa
spookycat		#20	[-]
Posts: 93 (05/19/08 11:37:42) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	great response here! I am only part way through reading the replies, but before I forgot, I wanted to reply and say it is partner assist he is having us do........see!!!! already I learned something about the different types of partner yogas!!! I still don't like doing it, but before I quick to judge, I will keep reading the replies and think about it and then reply again. Till then thank you all for taking the time to help me. Come away, O human child! To the waters and the wild With a faery hand in hand, For the world's more full of weeping than you can understand. W.B. Yeats

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