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I am totally thrilled with this discussion. And, I must admit, pretty damn proud that my post was what inspired it. I say this because, in my humble opinion, understanding how to deal with pain is...its just about the whole deal.

I found the analysis by noswrite to be the most perceptive discussion about "negative" energy I have ever read and I have read a ton.

One way I have thought about this is the difference between chocolate ice cream happiness and big sky happiness. Chocolate happiness is when you get what you want. It is when your desires are satisfied. And there is nothing horrible about that, indeed. If you desire a nice massage and you get one then hurray. Same with desiring a good job etc.

But, as I am sure everyone here is aware(given the wisdom of the above posts) the chocolate ice cream happiness is problematic because it sets one up to be in a constant craving relationship to the universe. When things work out then fine. But things often do not work out. And even when they do one is still relating to the universe from a need based place and this is the radical opposite of what the spiritual reality indicates.

Big sky happiness is the joy of just....it is what one experiences when one grasps, perceives, the stillness that was so well described above. It is the bliss that comes from the deep breath and the recognition that one is not just in peace but one is peace by ones nature. And this peace is the ground underlying all other feelings including rage, grief, terror and so one can feel all of those things and still feel joy.

This is what I adored about Erics book since he so well describes the stillness that is like a top spinning so quickly that it looks still.

So many thousands, millions of human beings begin spiritual work in pain and hope to get away from their pain. And this is a very underestandalbe desire and one that I still feel often as well.

And so much of the work is presented as the solution to that need to feel good.

But it has more to do with love and death then joy or happiness. The love, which is really the same as stillness, comes, arises as one dies to their attachments and identities and cravings. The love arises as one dies to everything other then the present moment of life and so I now hear the key board clicking away as I type and hear a motorcyle in the background and notice I feel so happy and also sad and reassured in a very deep way.

namaste,
gideon